<html><head></head><body><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><div id="lark-mail-quote-5a3be9fdc2ebbdb7f182cdac1610d118">On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 3:41 PM David R. Oran <<a href="mailto:daveoran@orandom.net" target="_blank">daveoran@orandom.net</a>> wrote:<br/></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Others may have different views, but for me the fundamental barrier that prevented convergence of the two protocols (which are extremely similar other than packet encoding) was that the IRTF and IETF rules require that change control reside with the IRTF. The NDN community was not willing to take that step.<br id="m_-2099255521355810426m_-331913081719983576m_-4226737082750118021lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"/></div></div></blockquote><div><br/></div><div><div dir="ltr">Thanks for this context, someone on the ICNRG mailing list added the reason for this is specifically that:</div><div dir="ltr"><br/><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 3:45 PM Junxiao Shi <<a href="mailto:shijunxiao@arizona.edu" target="_blank">shijunxiao@arizona.edu</a>> wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>In
terms of code, NDN forked from CCNx 0.x, due to PARC's patent claims at
the time being incompatible with NSF's open requirements.</div></div></blockquote>[…]<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>The convergence
effort did not proceed because CCN wanted a stable protocol suitable
for commercialization, while the NDN team wanted to focus on research
and did not have the manpower for standardization.</div><div>Nowadays,
the NDN team is focusing on security and decentralized applications,
while CCN is focusing on operating large networks and gaining higher
performance.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><br/></div><div>But both security & decentralization as well as stability & standardization seem vital, especially as the initial convergence effort was motivated by the concern that it is:</div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Not a healthy signal for ICN if we keep developing two different, incompatible sets of specs (CCNx and NDN)</blockquote></div><div><br/></div><div>There must be some way to address the concerns on either side. There are also open patent pools,
and if it encourages wider support that seems to be in Cisco's best
interest too, right? I wonder if that would help reignite the
convergence efforts. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>___________________________</div>iDevice - please excuse typos.</div><div dir="ltr"><br/><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 25, 2025, at 4:17 PM, Kyra <hello@kyra.run> wrote:<br/><br/></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>When reading that NDN was based on CCNx, I didn't realize that meant that NDN is based on Xerox PARC's CCNx 0.x code, but this was <a href="http://www.lists.cs.ucla.edu/pipermail/ndn-interest/2017-March/001596.html" target="_blank">acquired by Cisco</a> and version 1.x is an ongoing project through the IRTF's Information Centric Networking Research Group (<a href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/icnrg/oQYP7UhvVzuOmCAkwv6SmvNSYOw/" target="_blank">ICNRG</a>): <a href="https://www.irtf.org/icnrg.html" target="_blank">https://www.irtf.org/icnrg.html</a></div><div><br/></div><div></div><div>There was even an effort around 2016 to work together to:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Understand and document current differences [n]ot only syntax and mechanisms – also semantics and motivation for design decisions</blockquote></div><div>and resolve those to produce a <br/></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">set of (Experimental) RFCs that represent community consensus on one combined NDN/CCNx design</blockquote><div dir="ltr"><ul><li><a href="https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/96/slides/slides-96-icnrg-7.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/96/slides/slides-96-icnrg-7.pdf</a></li></ul></div><div dir="ltr"><br/></div><div>It looks like the convergence wiki page has been purged, and there was a protocol harmonization document drafted, but otherwise the meeting records stopped 8 years ago</div><div><ul><li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220607064227/https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/icnrg/convergence" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20220607064227/https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/icnrg/convergence</a></li><li><a href="https://icnrg.github.io/draft-icnrg-harmonization/draft-icnrg-harmonization-00.html" target="_blank">https://icnrg.github.io/draft-icnrg-harmonization/draft-icnrg-harmonization-00.html</a></li><li><a href="https://github.com/icnrg/convergence/tree/master/meetings" target="_blank">https://github.com/icnrg/convergence/tree/master/meetings</a></li></ul></div><div>How far did those efforts go and if they have concluded, what was the impasse? In my last reply to the 'Understanding Named Data Networking' thread, I should've added this as another worthwhile comparison to publish!</div><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr"><br/></div><div>I was hoping to see the recording of the conference where some of this was discussed, but the <a href="https://named-data.net/2017/04/04/named-data-networking-ndn-project-newsletter-februarymarch-2017/" target="_blank">recording links</a> (below) are dead and even the Internet Archive's <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20181111152459/https://www.caida.org/workshops/ndn/1703/" target="_blank">Wayback Machine snapshot</a> from the same year also shows dead links. <br/><br/></div><div>P.S. When will the recordings of this year's NDN Community meeting go online? I had to work so I wasn't able to pay close attention but wanted to see the videos when they are available!</div><div id="m_-2099255521355810426m_-331913081719983576m_-4226737082750118021lark-mail-quote-d50a88bc00e923bb322fa5e4dd7b337f"><div dir="ltr"><br/></div><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:37 AM Lan Wang <<a href="mailto:lanwang@memphis.edu" target="_blank">lanwang@memphis.edu</a>> wrote:<br/><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi all,</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Here’re the NDNcomm (NDN Community Meeting) 2017 live streams for today and tomorrow (starting at 8:30am central):<br/><br/>3/23: <a href="http://mediasite.memphis.edu/Mediasite/Play/b946b7085dea4573aba78d0425bd5fd91d" target="_blank">http://mediasite.memphis.edu/Mediasite/Play/b946b7085dea4573aba78d0425bd5fd91d</a><br/><br/>3/24: <a href="http://mediasite.memphis.edu/Mediasite/Play/cd3596a0b235492cbc049754b8f037d71d" target="_blank">http://mediasite.memphis.edu/Mediasite/Play/cd3596a0b235492cbc049754b8f037d71d</a><br/> <br/>Thanks,<br/><br/>Lan<br/><br/>************************************************<br/>Lan Wang<br/>Professor & Chair<br/>Department of Computer Science<br/>University of Memphis<br/>Memphis, TN 38152<br/><br/>Phone: 901-678-1643<br/>URL: <a href="http://www.cs.memphis.edu/~lanwang" target="_blank">http://www.cs.memphis.edu/~lanwang</a><br/>***********************************************</blockquote></div></div></div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br/><span>Ndn-interest mailing list</span><br/><span><a href="mailto:Ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu" target="_blank">Ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu</a></span><br/><span><a href="https://www.lists.cs.ucla.edu/mailman/listinfo/ndn-interest" target="_blank">https://www.lists.cs.ucla.edu/mailman/listinfo/ndn-interest</a></span><br/></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
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