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<div style="font-family:sans-serif"><div style="white-space:normal"><p dir="auto">The paper <a href="https://conferences.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2016/proceedings/p50-carofiglio.pdf" style="color:#3983C4">https://conferences.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2016/proceedings/p50-carofiglio.pdf</a><br>
seems highly relevant to this discussion.</p>
<p dir="auto">Have you read it?</p>
<br><p dir="auto">On 30 Sep 2018, at 1:23, Shanshan wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><div id="6E2D9939-4B1B-40B6-8C68-80E024A1E67B"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">Dear
Prof. Lixia Zhang,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">Thanks
for your reply.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">1)given we are
doing research here: could you elaborate the advantages from your planned
approach over the current link layer reliability enhancement?</span><span style="font-family: 宋体;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">The main advantage
is a fine-granularity or qos-based loss detection and recovery: I have read the
Hop-By-Hop Best Effort Link Layer Reliability in NDN (BELRP) and the NFD-developer-guide,
and I am not fully sure if the sequence number and ack based solutions at the
link layer can see the flow information. but as described in BELRP, if the BELRP
is enabled, all packets require sequence, so I guess all packets require loss
detection and retransmission (with the same max number of retransmission) without
distinguish flow or service. However, packets loss detection and recovery have
a trade-off between content retrieval delay and bandwidth consumption, so some
delay sensitive or real-time applications require higher priority in packets
loss detection and recovery, and NDN forwarding layer can easily achieve it,
because every ndn node has PIT.</span><span style="font-family: 宋体;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">Another advantage seems
weak, and it is from a common assumption in the TCP/IP network: the wireless
link is not completely reliable even relying on the link layer to cope with it,
so reliable communication relying on high layer is necessary.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">2)for point-point
channels, the NDN-LP based solution seems working well, although this solution
(so far) does not apply to multi-access channels. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">I am not sure I
have fully understood the principle of NDN-LP especially about the granularity
problem, and I will keep on reading the related papers, or could you recommend
some related papers? I found that Link Service can work on top of several types
of transport (in the NFD-developer-guide) but wireless/802.11 is absent, so are
there any challenges in implementation of NDN over wireless different from IP
over wireless, or is it the multi-access channels?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">3)it is unclear to
me why the FIB entry can only has one outgoing face (or this is just your
assumption)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">Yes, this is my
assumption. The case is that producer (single-homed) connects to t<a name="_Hlk526075540" target="_blank">he edge router/BS/AP</a> (via one hop) over a wireless
channel. Some works can be done about timer-based retransmission on edge
router/BS/AP. A more accurate timer can be estimated.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">4)it does not seem
hard to add such code into ndnSIM to try it out</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">Yes, it is. But I
am not so sure if any existing forwarding strategy has this feature, or my
planned approach has already overlap with them. The in-network retransmission seems
to retry the Interest to a different alternative nexthop, and the goal seems to solve
the multipath problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 宋体;">Best,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-family: 宋体;">Shanshan</span></p><br><br><blockquote name="replyContent" class="ReferenceQuote" style="padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left:#b6b6b6 2px solid;margin-right:0">-----Original Messages-----<br>
<b>From:</b><span id="rc_from">"Lixia Zhang" <<a href="mailto:lixia@cs.ucla.edu" target="_blank">lixia@cs.ucla.edu</a>></span><br>
<b>Sent Time:</b><span id="rc_senttime">2018-09-30 01:04:52 (Sunday)</span><br>
<b>To:</b> Shanshan <<a href="mailto:shishanshan@cstnet.cn" target="_blank">shishanshan@cstnet.cn</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "Teng Liang" <<a href="mailto:philoliang@email.arizona.edu" target="_blank">philoliang@email.arizona.edu</a>>, <a href="mailto:ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu" target="_blank">ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ndn-interest] NFD-forwarding strategy retry<br><br><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 28, 2018, at 9:22 PM, Shanshan <<a href="mailto:shishanshan@cstnet.cn" class="" target="_blank">shishanshan@cstnet.cn</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">Hi Teng,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">1)Why resend an Interest to the same outgoing
face:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">When a producer (single-homed) connects to (via one
hop) an over a wireless channel, packets (Interest, Data, Nack) may get lost due
to poor wireless link. I want to design a new forwarding strategy for the edge
router/BS/AP for reliable communication at NDN fw layer rather than at link layer.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>given we are doing research here: could you elaborate the advantages from your planned approach over the current link layer reliability enhancement?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>for point-point channels, the NDN-LP based solution seems working well, although this solution (so far) does not apply to multi-access channels. </div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">
In such case, the FIB entry only has one outgoing face.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">it is unclear to me why the FIB entry can only has one outgoing face (or this is just your assumption)</div></div></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">2)and when:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">In the above scenario, I want to design a new forwarding
strategy for the edge router/BS/AP by setting a new timer (retransmission timer)
for each PIT entry, and the retransmission timer is estimated by the RTT
between each Interest and the corresponding Data belonging to the same flow. When
the timer expires, the forwarding strategy retries this Interest to the same outgoing
face.</span> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" class="">I also configure the Access Router Strategy and the
ASF Strategy for the edge router/BS/AP in ndnSIM2.6, but neither implements Interest
retransmission generated by the local node.</span></p></div></div></blockquote>it does not seem hard to add such code into ndnSIM to try it out<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote name="replyContent" class="ReferenceQuote" style="padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left:#b6b6b6 2px solid;margin-right:0">-----Original Messages-----<br class="">
<b class="">From:</b><span id="rc_from" class="">"Teng Liang" <<a href="mailto:philoliang@email.arizona.edu" class="" target="_blank">philoliang@email.arizona.edu</a>></span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent Time:</b><span id="rc_senttime" class="">2018-09-29 02:57:53 (Saturday)</span><br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Shanshan <<a href="mailto:shishanshan@cstnet.cn" class="" target="_blank">shishanshan@cstnet.cn</a>>, <a href="mailto:ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu" class="" target="_blank">ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Ndn-interest] NFD-forwarding strategy retry<br class=""><br class=""><p class="">Hi Shanshan,</p>
Can you be more specific on the why and when you want to resend an
Interest to the same outgoing face?<br class="">
<br class="">
Teng<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/26/18 12:05 AM, Shanshan wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3c27ae28.17f58.16614b2dc0d.Coremail.shishanshan@cstnet.cn" class="">
hi,community
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I read the latest version of the nfd-developer-guide and I am
not sure if it is allowed to retry the same Interest (generated
by the local node rather than the consumer) via the same
outgoing face. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thank you!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best,</div>
<div class="">Shanshan.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
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<br class="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</blockquote><span class=""><br class=""></span></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">Ndn-interest mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu" class="" target="_blank">Ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu</a><br class="">http://www.lists.cs.ucla.edu/mailman/listinfo/ndn-interest<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></blockquote><br><span>--<br>Shanshan Shi<div>PhD candidate</div><div>Computer Network Information Center,</div><div>Chinese Academy of Sciences</div><div><font size="2" style="font-family: tahoma, verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">email: <a href="mailto:niuyl@cstnet.cn" target="_blank">shishanshan</a></font><a href="mailto:niuyl@cstnet.cn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:hjh@cstnet.cn" style="font-family: tahoma, verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><u><font color="#0066cc" size="2">@cstnet.cn</font></u></a></div></span></div></blockquote>
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</blockquote><p dir="auto">DaveO</p>
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