<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:DengXian;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@DengXian";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:535702258;
mso-list-template-ids:-1;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:677464389;
mso-list-template-ids:-1;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2
{mso-list-id:726342434;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:718415906 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l2:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l2:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l2:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l2:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l2:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l2:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l2:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR>Thank you for your clarification,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR>However, this is true only if the content is static (correct me please if I'm wrong). I can not see the benefits of caching in dynamic content scenarios.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR>Let’s reform my old example in another way!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR>Assuming 02 consumers C1 and C2 from the same network, sending a request to Facebook and Youtube.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><span lang=FR>The case of Facebook: both of Interest packets carry the sane name com/facebook (or something like), because of they carry the same name, an Interest aggregation will be done (How can we distinguish between different requests with the same name for dynamic ontent). Facebook server sent the Data packet to them, how can the ICN engine distinguish between consumers and which one has which Data (C1(Data) is not the same as C2(Data)). Also, we can not cache the Data, because it has a relation to a specific consumer, even if we cache it and serve it to the same consumer request from a different network in different Interest request, it can not be true as the content by nature should be dynami.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><span lang=FR>The case of Youtube: C1 and C2 send the same Interest request to V1, both of them got the same video, an intermediate node cache the video (if it is a shared video and can not break the copyright rule – how ICN deal with copyrights). Moreover, even the video is a static content, but Youtube integrates ads on it (business view), which means if we cache it, Youtube can not integrate ads on it (even if we cache the video and ads, ads should be dynamic from video/consumer to another), in another word, Youtube can not get money using this networking paradigm.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR>I think ICN (NDN) can not be applied to real network environment, just when if it can be commercialized and companies can get their benefits from the offered service, especially in dynamic content networks.</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Boubakr Nour (Ph.D Candidate)<br>Beijing Institute of Technology (<span lang=ZH-CN style='font-family:DengXian'>北京理工大学</span>)</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:daveoran@orandom.net">David Oran</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, May 17, 2017 7:36 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:Cedric.Westphal@huawei.com">Cedric Westphal</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:n.boubakr@bit.edu.cn">n.boubakr@bit.edu.cn</a>; <a href="mailto:ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu">ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu</a>; <a href="mailto:icnrg@irtf.org">icnrg@irtf.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Ndn-interest] [icnrg] Caching Dynamic Content</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I stand corrected! :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>On 16 May 2017, at 14:45, Cedric Westphal wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #777777 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:3.75pt'><div id=0F5492D7-5973-41CE-8849-22E76933F102><div><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>Caching is a win under THREE conditions ;-)</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><li style='color:#777777;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span style='color:#1F497D'>For error control</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li style='color:#777777;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span style='color:#1F497D'>For sharing the same content among multiple consumers</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li style='color:#777777;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span style='color:#1F497D'>To smooth out link variability over time. </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>For an example of c), the most extreme case is that of DTN. Assume A wants to send contente to C. Node A would send a content for node B to cache because the link A-B is up; the link A-B may go down, but link B-C comes up, and the content can now be shared from the cache of B to C. But this case covers bandwidth fluctuation due to congestion and/or wireless interface fluctuations. See: F. Bronzino, D. Stojadinovic, C. Westphal, D. Raychaudhuri, Exploiting Network Awareness to Enhance DASH over Wireless, IEEE CCNC, January 2016 <a href="https://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/bronzino2016exploiting.pdf">https://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/bronzino2016exploiting.pdf</a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'>C.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#777777'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#777777'> Ndn-interest [mailto:ndn-interest-bounces@lists.cs.ucla.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Oran<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 12, 2017 6:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> n.boubakr@bit.edu.cn<br><b>Cc:</b> ndn-interest@lists.cs.ucla.edu; icnrg@irtf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ndn-interest] [icnrg] Caching Dynamic Content</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>Caching is a win under two conditions:<br>a) for error control (recovering from lost Interest or data messages due to congestion, mobility, or other disruptions), or re-fetch of content that is unchanged<br>b) for sharing the same content among multiple consumers.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>The former remains useful even if each user gets different content.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>The latter is useful only if multiple consumers are getting the same identical content, and if the content is unencrypted or encrypted under a shared key.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>You are right that dynamically generated content that is unique per consumer will not experience any sharing gains though caching, but may have value for error control or temporal sharing.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>Some privacy advocates recommend that all content be encrypted with non-shared keys, in order to provide protection against correlation attacks, leakage through key sharing not controlled by the consumer, and perfect forward secrecy (PFS).</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>So, there you have it…</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>On 12 May 2017, at 0:19, n.boubakr@bit.edu.cn wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #777777 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:3.0pt'><div id=6C051EB2-B83C-4CFD-A51D-B2A92222FBD3><div><p><span lang=FR style='color:#777777'>Dear all,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=FR style='color:#777777'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=FR style='color:#777777'>Talking about the in-network caching for dynamic-content on ICN, I have the following miss-understanding:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#777777;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span lang=FR>Let’s take a scenario when two end-users want to access to the same website (e.g. Facebook), they requested facebook.com/home, well the name appears the same for both users, however, the content of each request is not the same. How does ICN work with this situation, because caching such content is not useful at all (even if the same user requests the same content name, the content will be different)? Does in-network caching have no benefits with dynamic content? Also, how does the content delivery process in this situation (because Interest/Data packets have not the requester name), how ICN nodes distinguish between the two (N) requesters?</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#777777;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span lang=FR>Another question arises, requesting a video from Youtube for example (the video can be cached on any node), however, the real process is that the Youtube page associated with such video has some dynamic content such as Recommended Videos… Also, the video itself has many ads that appear on the video and they are different from user to another, and cannot be cached, and they are the main business method for the company. How can ICN treat the business model for such situation, as any company will not migrate to ICN if ICN can not ensure a business achievement?</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p><span lang=FR style='color:#777777'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=FR style='color:#777777'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=FR style='color:#777777'>Best regards,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#777777'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='color:#777777'>Boubakr Nour (Ph.D Candidate)<br>Beijing Institute of Technology (</span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#777777'>北京理工大学</span><span style='color:#777777'>)</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #777777 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:3.0pt'><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>_______________________________________________<br>icnrg mailing list<br>icnrg@irtf.org<br><a href="https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg"><span style='color:#777777'>https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777'>DaveO</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#777777'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>DaveO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>